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Birders no longer welcome at Laguna Rd. (Ventura Co.)

Noah Arthur
 

Thanks to Steve Tucker for pointing out the sensitive access situation at the Laguna Rd. tams. The local residents obviously do not like birders walking along Laguna Rd, so in my opinion this location should be considered closed to birding, and should be marked as “restricted access” in eBird. 

In the past, situations where birders refused to stop visiting a road with tams when local landowners asked them to, resulted in the tams being cut down and the birds losing this important habitat. 

Noah Arthur (Oakland)


Adam Searcy
 

Noah and others, 

Birders have been accessing this row of tamarisks for years. Birders continue to be allowed to access this public road shoulder. Birders should continue to be respectful of private property, not interfere with traffic or farming operations, and be sure to park off of the road. As long as we use common sense when birding that roadside, no issues should arise. Whether or not the trees someday disappear (as have many windbreaks of tamarisks and other trees on the Oxnard Plain) will probably have nothing to do with birders. 

Adam Searcy
Santa Barbara, CA

On Oct 12, 2019, at 18:36, Noah Arthur via Groups.Io <semirelicta@...> wrote:

Thanks to Steve Tucker for pointing out the sensitive access situation at the Laguna Rd. tams. The local residents obviously do not like birders walking along Laguna Rd, so in my opinion this location should be considered closed to birding, and should be marked as “restricted access” in eBird. 

In the past, situations where birders refused to stop visiting a road with tams when local landowners asked them to, resulted in the tams being cut down and the birds losing this important habitat. 

Noah Arthur (Oakland)


David Pereksta
 

Noah

This is not your call to make, yet it is something you have done numerous times in Northern California and are now trying to do it down here. Just because someone got talked to by a motorist on Laguna Road does not mean it is off limits to birders. I have been talked to by frustrated people there numerous times when I am birding there respectfully on my own. Yes, groups and some individuals should conduct themselves better there, but it does not mean that you can come in and dictate where people should bird or do not bird. We talked about this the other day (which obviously did not have any impact on you) so I don’t know what to do about this. I will tell you that I am not approving your post to the venturacobirding list and the next time you post anything like this, I am banishing you from the list. 

All other birders reading this, please ignore Noah’s post. However, when you are at the Laguna tams, please be respectful to motorists and step out of the road when cars are passing by. 

Dave Pereksta
Ventura



On Oct 12, 2019, at 18:36, Noah Arthur via Groups.Io <semirelicta@...> wrote:


Thanks to Steve Tucker for pointing out the sensitive access situation at the Laguna Rd. tams. The local residents obviously do not like birders walking along Laguna Rd, so in my opinion this location should be considered closed to birding, and should be marked as “restricted access” in eBird. 

In the past, situations where birders refused to stop visiting a road with tams when local landowners asked them to, resulted in the tams being cut down and the birds losing this important habitat. 

Noah Arthur (Oakland)


Noah Arthur
 

Thing is, now that some birders have blocked traffic there, the local landowners will see ALL birders as a potential nuisance at best, and a menace to public safety at worst. You all really think it's OK to keep birding a place where local landowners clearly don't want us to bird? To me, birding doesn't seem to be a good enough reason to antagonize people like this. And landowners do have the authority to tell birders to leave public roads bordering their property, simply because birding is an unimportant and illegitimate, even if legal, use of public roads. 

If anybody can give a good reason why it's ethically OK to bird such places, then I'm all ears. But I haven't heard anything convincing yet; everyone tells me that it's fine to bird such sensitive areas simply because it's not illegal. However, something being legal doesn't mean it's ethical, so to me that argument is not particularly convincing... 

Noah







On Saturday, October 12, 2019, 07:12:33 PM PDT, David Pereksta <pereksta@...> wrote:


Noah

This is not your call to make, yet it is something you have done numerous times in Northern California and are now trying to do it down here. Just because someone got talked to by a motorist on Laguna Road does not mean it is off limits to birders. I have been talked to by frustrated people there numerous times when I am birding there respectfully on my own. Yes, groups and some individuals should conduct themselves better there, but it does not mean that you can come in and dictate where people should bird or do not bird. We talked about this the other day (which obviously did not have any impact on you) so I don’t know what to do about this. I will tell you that I am not approving your post to the venturacobirding list and the next time you post anything like this, I am banishing you from the list. 

All other birders reading this, please ignore Noah’s post. However, when you are at the Laguna tams, please be respectful to motorists and step out of the road when cars are passing by. 

Dave Pereksta
Ventura



On Oct 12, 2019, at 18:36, Noah Arthur via Groups.Io <semirelicta@...> wrote:


Thanks to Steve Tucker for pointing out the sensitive access situation at the Laguna Rd. tams. The local residents obviously do not like birders walking along Laguna Rd, so in my opinion this location should be considered closed to birding, and should be marked as “restricted access” in eBird. 

In the past, situations where birders refused to stop visiting a road with tams when local landowners asked them to, resulted in the tams being cut down and the birds losing this important habitat. 

Noah Arthur (Oakland)


Todd McGrath
 

Noah,

I don’t live in CA anymore, but have birders the Laguna Tams annually for 20+ years (multiple times per year) including this year). Dave and some of the locals have birded It far more regularly. On many occasions local folks have stopped by to ask what we are doing and were interested to hear about the cool birds seen there. Once in a while someone comes by to express a concern, usually to report a birder or group of birders that didn’t behave well and caused a traffic situation and or a safety concern. Most of the time it’s out of fear that someone will be hurt. It’s never been the organic farm owner that owns the Tams as far as I know.  Steve Tucker very appropriately brought this incident up a a reminder to take care when birding the location, nothing more and nothing less.

You are a visitor the the VENCO area, and visitors should generally take their cues from the local birders about what the rules are for birding various locations adjacent to or on sensitive property. I travel all over the country fairly regularly and bird a number of locations like this. I always am careful to learn the rules, obey them, and be friendly and grateful to the landowners or locals that I meet. What makes you an expert on this location based on a comment that you did not even experience first-hand? Your history of creating issues such as this when none actually exist leaves me to believe there is a core issue that I am not qualified help you with, but perhaps you should find someone who is. 

Finally the Laguna Tams are in VENCO, not SBC. I would suggest you move this discussion to that forum. If you still believe it is not a place the public should bird, my advice is don’t bird it. 

Todd McGrath
SKUA@...
The Woodlands TX
But often the Laguna Tams

On Sunday, October 13, 2019, 02:07:01 AM CDT, Noah Arthur via Groups.Io <semirelicta@...> wrote:


Thing is, now that some birders have blocked traffic there, the local landowners will see ALL birders as a potential nuisance at best, and a menace to public safety at worst. You all really think it's OK to keep birding a place where local landowners clearly don't want us to bird? To me, birding doesn't seem to be a good enough reason to antagonize people like this. And landowners do have the authority to tell birders to leave public roads bordering their property, simply because birding is an unimportant and illegitimate, even if legal, use of public roads. 

If anybody can give a good reason why it's ethically OK to bird such places, then I'm all ears. But I haven't heard anything convincing yet; everyone tells me that it's fine to bird such sensitive areas simply because it's not illegal. However, something being legal doesn't mean it's ethical, so to me that argument is not particularly convincing... 

Noah







On Saturday, October 12, 2019, 07:12:33 PM PDT, David Pereksta <pereksta@...> wrote:


Noah

This is not your call to make, yet it is something you have done numerous times in Northern California and are now trying to do it down here. Just because someone got talked to by a motorist on Laguna Road does not mean it is off limits to birders. I have been talked to by frustrated people there numerous times when I am birding there respectfully on my own. Yes, groups and some individuals should conduct themselves better there, but it does not mean that you can come in and dictate where people should bird or do not bird. We talked about this the other day (which obviously did not have any impact on you) so I don’t know what to do about this. I will tell you that I am not approving your post to the venturacobirding list and the next time you post anything like this, I am banishing you from the list. 

All other birders reading this, please ignore Noah’s post. However, when you are at the Laguna tams, please be respectful to motorists and step out of the road when cars are passing by. 

Dave Pereksta
Ventura



On Oct 12, 2019, at 18:36, Noah Arthur via Groups.Io <semirelicta@...> wrote:


Thanks to Steve Tucker for pointing out the sensitive access situation at the Laguna Rd. tams. The local residents obviously do not like birders walking along Laguna Rd, so in my opinion this location should be considered closed to birding, and should be marked as “restricted access” in eBird. 

In the past, situations where birders refused to stop visiting a road with tams when local landowners asked them to, resulted in the tams being cut down and the birds losing this important habitat. 

Noah Arthur (Oakland)